Women and the Taliban

Sahar Saba works with RAWA - a group which fights for women's human rights and justice in Afghanistan. RAWA's Sahar Saba (not her real name) answered your questions in a live forum. To watch coverage of the forum, select the link below: 56k

Established in 1977, the Revolutionary Association of Women of Afghanistan work from Pakistan, often risking their own lives to carry out their health and education programmes.

RAWA members also act as witnesses and have made chilling recordings of the oppression and violence suffered by women under Afghanistan's Taleban rule.

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Transcript:

Newshost:
Rebekah, New Zealand: How is the bombing in Afghanistan affecting women in Afghanistan?

Sahar Saba:
Afghanistan is a country which has been at war for the last 20 years - of course women again are the first victims. Thousands of women have been forced to leave Afghanistan again with their children. They have been a lot of mental concern for women because the Taleban have announced this new law to force men to go to the warfront. Also because of the lack of food, lack of access to healthcare - this is a big issue for thousands of women.

The borders at both sides, with Iran and Pakistan, are closed which is another big issue for women and children, that they cannot come to Pakistan through the mountains. So economically and socially, it has very bad consequences for our people in general and for women in particular as we have seen in the last 20 years. Again they are becoming the victims because of this war and this is the situation of war. So if they want it or not they are becoming the victims.

Newshost:
Avinash Waghray, New Delhi , India: Do you think the air raids on Afghanistan are justified?

Sahar Saba:
Not at all because this is not the solution. It cannot eradicate the real terrorism and as we have clearly seen, our people again are becoming the victims. Right now, thousands of our people are in danger of hunger or starvation, bombings etc. - no one can guarantee their lives. We have been receiving reports from Kabul - just yesterday we talked to one of our colleagues - bombs have been dropped close to civilian places. This is not the solution for today's Afghanistan. Secondly, no one is sure about the result of these attacks. Who will replace the Taleban if they are removed? That is the biggest concern for everyone in Afghanistan.

Newshost:
Manoj Mathew, Jabalpur, India: Are you getting any help from the men in Afghanistan for your fight against women oppression in your country.

Sahar Saba:
We do fortunately - we have many great male supporters inside Afghanistan and also in Pakistan. It is very difficult to work without men in these societies. So of course we are trying to get more support. But that's why we believe fundamentalists, religious extremists, are far different from the common people - our enemy is fundamentalism not the men in Afghanistan.

Newshost:
Michael Gotianun, Manila, Philippines: If women are not allowed to work, what happens to widows or single mothers with no close relatives?

Sahar Saba:
Unfortunately for hundreds and thousands of these women have no option left for them except to beg or to go into prostitution or committing suicide. This is the situation, this is the tragedy with women in Afghanistan. Unfortunately RAWA is the only active organisation in Afghanistan and cannot do more due to our very critical financial problems. Many of them have committed suicide and the rate of committing suicide is increasing every day. Also there is the psychological issue with Afghan women - more than 95% of women in Afghanistan have very serious psychological problems.

Newshost:
Roushan Aziz, Dhaka, Bangladesh: As the Afghan women are not allowed to go to school then how do you carry out your educational programme?

Sahar Saba:
It is unbelievable working in a society like Afghanistan but we do have projects that are completely underground. We have never let the Taleban know about our activities - the places, the timing etc. But we do expect anything from them at any time - it doesn't mean that we don't have problems. We are working and taking a risk with our lives. It is only because we know how important it is to give education under such a brutal regime.

Newshost:
Balaram, Boston USA: Why has there been no outrage in the Muslim world about the plight of women in Afghanistan under the Taleban rule?

Sahar Saba:
I believe that unfortunately until September 11th Afghanistan was a forgotten tragedy not only in Muslim countries but all around the world. But suddenly it's become the centre of the international community and the media and it's not about caring about the people of Afghanistan or the women. Everyone knows why it is happening there in Afghanistan.

There has been some outrage even in the Muslim countries but it was not enough in Western countries and many other countries. There is some reason for this especially in many Muslim countries, for example, Iran and Saudi Arabia - they are also countries with fundamentalist regimes in power and their own people are under oppression and they don't have the right raise their voice against their own governments let alone talking about other countries.

Newshost:
Alice Dunkerley, Spain: How different was life before the Taleban? Can you see women ever having equal rights not only Afghanistan, but places like Pakistan also?

Sahar Saba:
We cannot say that women had full rights in Afghanistan or even in Pakistan but what we can say is that we definitely cannot compare the situation of women today with the situation of women 30 years ago. Thirty years ago we had a country - women at least had rights - women were in the government - more than 70% of the schoolteachers were women - boys and girls were studying together. We had rights and we were considered as human beings. But what happened with the Taleban, with the fundamentalist Northern Alliance and all these parties the wheel of history has turned 100 years back. This is the tragedy that we are not going ahead but we are going back.

Newshost:
Cristian Lillo, Temuco, Chile: Does the Northern Alliance treat women better than the Taleban?

Sahar Saba:
No, unfortunately they are both fundamentalists - they have the same mentality, the same ideology and it's based on experience that we had during their time in power. We can never forget those four darkest years in our history - in many ways they were worse than the Taleban. There were kidnappings of young girls, rapes - even 70 year-old grandmothers. So how can we say they are better? No, they are as bad as each other - they are fundamentalists and that is why both sides should be eliminated.

Newshost:
Ajit Matthew, Bangalore, India: Do you think women will be ever treated on a par once the Taleban leadership is removed?

Sahar Saba:
We cannot say anything for sure but it depends more on who will replace the Taleban and what kind of government we will have in the future. Of course we hope to have a different government from these fundamentalists where women at least are a part of the society - where women at least have the right to work or to get something not only for themselves but for their children. But we cannot say anything for sure.

Newshost:
Ásdís Bergþórsdóttir, Reykjavik, Iceland: Now there is much talk of the future government of Afghanistan of a gathering of Afghan individuals and leaders to plan for the future. Has anyone approached RAWA with an offer to be included in such an assembly?

Sahar Saba:
We think that RAWA must be a part of the future government, not because of any kind of interest to be power but just to represent half of the population of Afghanistan. We do consider this as our right because we have been working for the last 24 years and we have made sacrifices. We believe that the goals we have - the objectives - which are women rights, democracy and secularism is what our people and our women want. So we hope there would be a place for RAWA on behalf of Afghan women

Newshost:
Has anyone asked to take part in any gathering yet?

Sahar Saba:
We have got some suggestions from our friends and we expect - so far not officially - but we expect that soon we will have such offers.

Newshost:
John Wachman, Chicago, USA: Can your desires for the rights of women be achieved under any form of Islamic government?

Sahar Saba:
The issue is not with the Islamic governments - the issue is with fundamentalism. That is why I would again say with the example of Afghanistan - that Afghanistan was a Muslim country thirty years ago. But it was a different country. At least it was a normal country but today it is not. So we don't believe that Islam or any religion can be an issue. The issue is how they are misleading the people under the name of Islam or religion - this is the issue.

Newshost:
Judy C, Seattle, USA: Even if the Taleban is removed from governing, how might it be possible to reshape men's thinking? They have had total authority to brutalise women and even kill them. What could possible make them stop?

Sahar Saba:
Regarding the Taleban and the fundamentalist - everyone knows who they were and how they were brought into power. So the issue now is between those who have brought them into power and the Taleban itself - it has nothing to do with our people. So it is better to find a solution to this and we believe stopping any kind of support - financial, military and political support to both sides - the Taleban and Northern Alliance - would be the best solution. Also the intervention of the United Nations peacekeeping forces in Afghanistan could do something.

Newshost:
Anne Tuite, Antwerp, Belgium: Do the women of Afghanistan actually want change or is there a large number of women within Afghanistan who support the oppression of women?

Sahar Saba:
How could one support such a brutal regime - having no rights, not being considered as a human being. I can say that the majority of women in Afghanistan are fed up with the fundamentalists, with the atrocities, with the crimes that have been committed against them.

Newshost:
Liza Marie, Winder, USA: Have you made any progress in letting the younger woman of your country know that what is going on - like the way woman are treated there is not the way of the world and that it has not always been the way it is now?

Sahar Saba:
This is one our main activities to especially educate young girls. The priority for us is the young generation - especially the girls. That's why even in Afghanistan those home-base classes, the literacy courses are all for these women and also raising awareness - not only about the situation in Afghanistan, about their rights as women, but also about the situation of women around the world and how they can have freedom - how they can have their rights as human beings. We believe it's very important to educate this young generation because the fundamentalists have not only destroyed the past and the present but our future as well. This is our responsibility to rebuild this future.

Newshost:
Bolandi, Poland: How do the ordinary people feel - especially men, husbands - about the bad situation of women in the Taleban's Afghanistan.

Sahar Saba:
Most of the men - most of the families hate the Taleban. I would say again that they are hoping to see the elimination of the Taleban from the political scene because they are tired of war, they are tired of the destruction, they are tired of the atrocities and brutalities that we cannot find in any part of the world. So that's why no one can support a regime like the Taleban or the fundamentalist in Afghanistan.

Another issue is why we don't see a visible resistance movement - people with empty stomachs and empty hands and facing an enemy which is talking with the language of the gun - it impossible to hope for resistance from them. But people are not happy with the situation and they want to change the situation.

Newshost:
Chaman, San Francisco, USA: Do you not think there are women who love to cover them up to protect themselves and for religious reasons? Even in a free country such as US there are women who cover themselves up.

Sahar Saba:
Yes there might be - even in Afghanistan - but the issue of the burkah in Afghanistan and why it has been opposed by many women is that it has been imposed by force - otherwise it is a right whether you want to cover yourself or not. It must be that you have this as a right. Yes, many women have covered themselves because of religious belief and many for other reasons. But it must not be by force - this is the issue today in Afghanistan.